Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

But have we not become infadels? Turn on your tv and actually watch it, if you can bear it. Barely dressed women selling us swim wear. Sexual refrences in shampoo commercials. MTV (need I explain?) Porn. Money money money.
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Yes, pure filth and greed. Mainly greed, using filth to get money. I agree!
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Now watch the news,
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The major news networks are not reliable; If you watch CSPAN while the House is getting stuff done, then watch the news, you'll see what I mean. I was out of work in 1994 and during that time I got a belly full of it.
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If another country invaded your home, changed your governement, killed your people, sucked the recources out and then left it in pieces, would you not say that this is against the bible? And the American people wonder why they hate us?

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Well, you are alluding to Iraq? If so, you must be getting this stuff from the mainstream media.

You haven't mentioned the torture/rape rooms, the plastic shredders through which people were killed *feet first*. If not, I'm not surprised if you are referring to TV reports.

I get my news from other sources; such as http://www.worldnetdaily.com and Salem Radio News.

The stuff on TV is pure brainwashing. Again, I got an eyefull of this back in 1994 simply comparing what I SAW congress do and what they SAID congress did.

So, our TV is used for watching movies!

Thanks,
Tim - Oct 09 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

I really appreciate your support! Thanks!

Let me say though, that you *won't* prove the existence of God via philosophy. Neither will you do it via science. As a matter of fact, one of the most frustrating things I've run into are those who view it as one or the other.

As a Christian, I deal with evidences. You make a verdict on the evidences, just as in any court of law. People, for one reason or another, really have difficulty grasping this.

You can BEGIN with philosphy, but it will only get you so far.

You can use Science, but it will only get you so far.

But the CORE is going to be based on historical/archaeological evidence (Boy, I've said this a thousand times!).

The Christian faith is built on the claims of Christ to be who He was, as well as His death and Ressurrection.

Ok, to many that sounds like *Kiddy Easter egg stuff*. Well, we have a myriad of *Secular* sources of Jesus' day that testify he was alive. The same sources also testify that he was, in fact, crucified. Other sources also verify that the tomb was *empty* shortly thereafter.

Now, I am smart enough to realize that if I say "It's true because the Bible says it" someone will say "Circular Reasoning". Please let me say two thins to this: Secular sources for history and archaeolgy have shown the scriptures as accurate. As a matter of fact, a guy by the name of Sir William Ramsay set out to DESTROY the reliability of the Scriptures. He went to work on the Gospel of Luke. Instead of destroying Luke, he became a follower of Jesus Christ and reported that "Luke is an historian of the first order". that is a rough quote but very close.

Secondly, in any court of Law, a defendant is allowed to speak in his/her own defense. That's not circular...and the testimony is open to examination, just as in Christianity.

Archaeology has also verified the claims of the Bible. Things are dug up, and they are where the Bible said they would be. Skeptics used to say that Solomon never lived, nor David. They called them "Myth". Then archaeologists came along and dug up stuff that had to belong to a very weatlthy person and found references to SOLOMON. *Ding*. Same kind of thing for David.

Remember Pharoah's army "chasing" the hebrews and how they were killed in the Red Sea? Well, we now know of a find *in* the Red Sea; a ton of egyptian chariots, INCLUDING one that had trim as the Pharoah's would have. *Ding*

...and this is only a couple examples. Science is also involved in verifying these things.

Philosophy? Well, maybe the best way to use this is as a starting point...

I know that in day-to-day life, I EXPECT things to be made by someone. If I want cheese, i go to the store and buy it from someone who *made it*. If I want an SUV I don't wait for one to appear in my drive, I know I have to go to the dealer who got one from a FACTORY.

We don't live our daily lives philosophically as those who say something comes from nothing by noone. I have a computer in front of me. If I told you it just "came into being" you'd *rightly* say I was nuts. Yet, the HUMAN MIND is VASTLY more complex...and if we say it was designed, people go nuts!

So maybe you can see where I'm going.

Anyway, thanks!

Tim - Oct 09 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

Let me quickly add too that 9/11 was not a result of an act of people in a *westernized* religion but rather those in Islam who take a literal view of 'Jihad'.

I'm sure this wasn't intentional, but I wanted to point that out.

Thanks,
Tim - Oct 09 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

Hello!

While I certainly appreciate your viewpoint, and why you would think that way, I would mention that the atrocities that you refer to (and are usually pointed to) were not done by what the SCRIPTURES refer to as Christians.

Just recently the government put to death a guy who *professed* to be a Christian, and murdered an abortion doctor. He was unrepentant for that act all the way to his execution.

What does the Bible say? It says that such a person is making a false claim (1 John).

People can gather *under a banner* and do something in the name of what's on that banner but doing so is not what makes one a Christian.

The term *Christian* was first used as an insult to the followers of Christ at Antioch (Acts). It means *little Christ* or a "Christ One". It was pointed directly at those who had become *Born Again* per the Scriptures. These were the early believers who were showing evidence of their *Genuine* faith through OBEDIENCE to God and His Word.

Unfortunately, "Christian" has come to mean just about anything, and therefore nothing. Christianity started in Israel, not the west. Jesus Christ was Jewish by blood.

We now lump mormons, catholics and most protestants together as "Christians". There is really no other way to describe this as just plain *wrong*.

You know, you can call yourself a feminist, and kill someone and it will make feminism look bad...but you can just *say* you are a feminist to be popular. That doesn't make you one. It's where your mind, emotions and will are. THAT is what you are...because *as a man thinks in his HEART, so is he".

Jesus said cleary in Matthew 7 that many on the Day of judgement will say "Lord, did we not..." (Do this or that in your Name?). "...And I will say to them, "Depart from me, you evil doers."

Lumping things together is a neat way to deal with things. It also is done when someone doesn't understand how the groups differ. Unfortunately, the MISuse of the term *Christian* has fed this.

But a *Genuine* Christian is something far different.

Thanks for the input,

Tim - Oct 09 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

That's ok...you haven't begun to answer them...No Baconian scientific method, just pictures of a live fish and a story about fossil fragments. No Observation, testing, etc. regarding cell "evolution". but somehow we proclaim it as "fact" per Lewontin. No, you have a theory...and you are taking it by faith! And this is being tought as FACT???

Thanks anyway, and take care...

Tim - Oct 08 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

Yeah, "limb fragments" for the "darwin fish"...if you read through to the bottom. Of course, no way of knowing if those fragments all belong to the same thing. Kind of like the pigs tooth ending up in a "missing link" drawing for Nebraska man.

More later...

Tim - Oct 08 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

....about the Lewontin article...you've given me evidence that the Jehovah's witnesses (I am not one by any stretch of the imagination) misquoted him on other things. This doesn't deal with the quote I gave you which was by the New York Review...:)

Tim - Oct 08 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

Yes, I admit that's a funny looking fish; but that isn't evidence of evolution...just that it is an odd looking fish! Just shows that this is still around, whatever it is. Doesn't have to be transitional or in any Macroevolutional state. It's just a living fish!

Tim - Oct 08 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

About the rest, thanks. And I will go over it. However, I want to ask for clarification...the "transitional" form...this live fish...I assume this represents something re:MACROevolution, not just variation within kind? If so, how do you know? And, what is it a transition from and to...and again, how do you know?

Tnanks, even though you do get my name wrong! :)

Tim - Oct 08 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

Thanks...that leaves me out!

Tim - Oct 08 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

Thanks Abe! Although I "heard you the first time"!...(referencing the four *accidental* posts).

I'm tempted to go on, but I won't. Maybe some other time. But thanks for your encouragement. It's a nice change from Ad Hominem attacks!

Blessings,

Tim - Oct 08 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

Soyburg:

I closed my previous post and then thought of this example:

Suppose you're in the U.S. and you are applying for some benefit which you know you qualify for. To get the benefit, the person behind the desk wants proof that you were born in the U.S. They ask you for your birth certificate. You cannot make them happy with "science". Test tubes won't work. They want Historical/legal evidence. So you give it to them. They don't look at it and just say "Well, that's just your opinion". They give it weight. They treat it as factual. That is the kind of evidence I can provide you. You give evidence but they also must exercise a certain amount of faith. In this case, there is overwhelming evidence to support faith in Christ. The only question is do you accept historical/legal evidence?

You do this every day! You go to a restaurant and ask for food. You don't do a chemical analysis of the food to make sure it's safe; you eat it out of trust that it is safe...at least in part due to the historical evidence that the food is safe to eat at that restaurant. When you step into a street, you have faith that you will be able to make it across without falling down and getting run over. Historically, you've made it across the street before! So, we all live by faith all the time. The only question is what do you place your faith in?

I think part of our problem is we are talking past each other. Again, Christianity is not based on test tubes...but evolution claims to be based on science; hence I ask for scientific answers.

Anyway, I await your answer to the previous message.

Tim - Oct 08 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

Soyburg:

I have to answer here because the end of this thread has no replyto. May be because we've maxed the number of sublevels.

Yes, you missed my point about irreducable complexity. My point wasn't linking blood clotting to cells. I had a list of questions there.

My question about the cell has to do with "how could the cell have evolved? To even live, it must have all the parts".

Another question: Where did all the information come from for the DNA?

Another question: What evolved first...hunger? The ability to eat? The ability to digest? The ability for the stomach to resist digestive juices?

Another question: How did any living creature live to evolve until clotting evolved?

Do you REALLY believe that everything came from nothing all on it's own? What scientific evidence is this based on?...and evolution claims to be scientific...which I am not claiming for Christianity, which is based on Historical/legal evidence including eyewitness accounts.

My point is very simple: Anything that calls itself "theory" should be able to answer some very basic questions...and evolution is espoused as a "fact".

My allusion to the "Darwin Fish" has to do with the cartoon fish with feet. The implication is that there must be a fish fossil with feet. Where is it? If not, isn't this just a hoax? The Christian fish is based on a REAL fish somewhere.

The more silence I hear to these questions the more convinced I am that evolution is just what the early evolutionists (such as Epicurius) used it as; a religious faith to justify a preferred lifestyle or political agenda.

Richard Lewontin, a leading evolutionary Biochemist said the following. I would ask you to consider it:

‘We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.’

This quote comes from ‘Billions and billions of demons’ in The New York Review, dated January 9, 1997, page 31.

I have other quotes from other leading evolutionists if you'd like them...

Thanks,

Tim - Oct 08 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

Hey! I just checked your submissions and found out you did the Megashira skin for Noatun. I use it! Good work!

Tim - Oct 08 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

The scriptures changed? No, the dead sea scrolls put the "transmission error problem" to rest.

No afterlife? Based on what? How do you know? Do you have all knowlege so that you can rule that out?

Thanks,

Tim - Oct 07 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

1.) I prefer knowledge over belief.

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So Do I. That's why I came to the conclusion I did. Evidence. By the way, you didn't answer my questions about evolution. You merely returned with questions! Show me the hard science with good hard answers! If there is knowlege there, put it on display! For example, where is the fossil for what is drawn as the "Darwin Fish"? It sure looks convincing! If a cell can't live without all it's parts, who could it have evolved? Before a "kind" developed blood clotting how could it even live to evolve?
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2.) I do not like to be preached upon. As you do. Most discussions in here are about artistic merit. Most discussions in your posts are about religion. So I get the impression that this is the main reason for your posts.

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what people post in this thread is their responsibility. I only respond to what I receive. Is your post about artistic merit? Fair enough?
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3.) Please don't sell the bible as hard facts. Do you have any proof for the walking-on-water bit?

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I have solid evidence for the credibility of the Word of God. Again, the core of Christianity is the ressurrection. We know Christ lived. We know He died on a cross. Numerous reports from that day (or close to that day) testify the tomb was empty. Yet, from all we know about crucifixion and how the tomb was guarded, the tomb was suddenly empty. So, prove that Christianity is a hoax by dealing with this...!
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4.) As with all myth...

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So what's mythical about the scriptures? They used to say Solomon and David were mythical, THEN the archaeologists proved the skeptics wrong. I don't need a skeptic's 'approval' to accept the evidence I have. You know, for some people, there is no such thing as *enough* evidence.
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6.) I studied geology and majored in hydrogeology. And whatever you may think about "job's hydrology" - it ain't scientifically accurate. Hell no. No it ain't.

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Well, I had a wonderful (evolutionist) geology professor who had a doctorate in Geology. He made sure I understoond it. I aced his course. I beg to differ. I think the problem is that it's not couched in *precisely* the *right* terms. How did Job know that 'water goes up and is stored in clouds" 4000 years ago? Please, tell me.
***

Thanks for helping my understanding,

Tim - Oct 07 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

First, in case you didn't notice my reply from the previous, thanks for the Gimp suggestion. I'll try it.

Secondly, please don't take this agressively...but let me quote you and give a response:

"The thought of being held accountable one day for our actions is very scarry" (sic) is precisely the attitude that turns people off."

True. However, would you say this if I were running through your town warning people that a hurricane was coming? (Let's assume you live in Florida). I don't think so. You'd say I was showing that I cared for them.

I've said it before; I'll say it again...and again till people understand...because I have examined sufficient evidence to come to this conclusion; the Scriptures are UNIQUELY accurate. They are reliable as history. They have foretold many events and have been accurate without fail. No, it's not that "the prophecies were written after the fact" because they date from before the event. We believe in the accuracy of Homer's Illiad but it only has 600 manuscripts. Yet the Scriptures have 20,000 or more...and they didn't vary over time.

I said that the Scriptures are UNIQUELY true. This flys in the face of "Tolerance". Well, Tough. "Tolerance" says there are a million ways to "get to god"...that is simply not the case.

Am I trolling? Well, I don't know what the intended meaning of the word as applied to me. All I know is I came here and noticed that there were people who were interested in this kind of work. So, I submit it. At the top of each submission, I tell everyone who my audience is. i don't go around flaming anyone. I don't go in other threads and say anything...unless it is positive...and even that is rare. The only entries are in my own threads, more often than not as replies to questions. That should be perfectly acceptable.

Others are free to choose to respond any way they wish; with taunting wallpapers, etc. But I leave them alone as the rabbit chases they are.

Again, because the written word is tricky and can sound different than intended, don't take this as "agressive" or "personal". And again, thanks for your techical suggestion for Gimp!

Blessings to you,

Tim - Oct 07 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

Thanks Avalon, I'll give it a try!

Tim - Oct 07 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

Well, first, I assume you are really interested in an answer. Under that assumption, let me say the following:

Thomas Jefferson is not my "standard". Besides, I believe he was a Deist, not a Christian. The "great commission" would mean nothing to him.

Secondly, I find it hard to believe you are comparing my wallpaper and the scripture I've put there with bus bombings and dealing dope to children. You aren't forced to view this, much less respond. that is your choice and responsibility. You are not a "helpless victim", as implied by your analogy.

Thirdly, the fact that we all DIE is a sign that we are a fallen race. "Death came into the world through sin." At Creation, there was no death. It was all "good". We were created in God's image...(with an intellect, emotion and will) but the image has become corrupted...that's why we have killings, etc. James 4:1 says it's all because we live for "self!". Another product of the fall.

No doubt you will reject this, which is why I question even answering you; but archeology and even secular history have verified the accuracy of the scriptures. When the Bible speaks of science, it is accurate...even written in a time when the authors had "no way" of knowing that what they were saying was scientifically true. For a long time, secularists said that Solomon was a myth...then the archaeologists found all kinds of artifacts that verify the scriptures. Now, it's "Ok". Then David...and on and on.

As a follower of Jesus Christ, I did not put my faith in something that has no objective basis. Here's a problem for you...disprove the ressurection! The best of skeptics, athiests and other types have tried for over 2000 years and many of them have come to the conviction that Christianity is true as a result of trying to prove it false. From secular history, we know that Christ lived and died on a cross...in fact, Josephus (who was not a believer at all) said of Jesus ..."If it be lawful that he be called a man..." before speaking of the accounts of his great works. It was a statement of elevation.

I would ask you what hard *scientific* evidence you have for the Darwin fish? Or maybe where the space came from for the universe? Do you believe everything came from *nothing*. On what basis? How did the "scientific method" turn this into fact?

You know there are a number of prominent evolutionary scientists who are coming out in the open about evolution being a religion...that no matter what science says...we are to hold to evolution.

While the fossils aren't being found, biblical artifacts are being dug up. The discovery of a trail of egyptian chariots that just seemed to go running into the Red Sea? Hmmm. The bible says that Pharoah was killed there too...and they did find a chariot that matches what he would have as the Pharoah of Egypt.

I'm really slow to add this because I'm not into self defense, but I think I will...I hear so much about "pushing my views on others"...Well, use your backarrow! Besides, to tell someone to be quiet...is THAT not "pushing your views on others?"

Thanks for your input.

Tim - Oct 07 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

"Tim's artwork is progressing very well."

Thanks, Chris...! - Oct 07 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

"No God"? How did you arrive at this "fact"? Do you believe everything popped into existence out of nothing on its own? On what do you base this belief? Takes greater faith than I have to believe this way!

When you need something, do you wait for it to appear on it's own accord?...or do you go to someone who got it from someone who *Made It*?

More importantly, if you have no hard evidence for what you believe, why do you believe it? Justify your lifestyle? Sounds like your "religion" to me...

Tim - Oct 07 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

Thanks... I knew I had to do something other than what is becoming a "Blue Gradient with a blue bar" syndrome.

The cross is a picture of one made of pewter which is not in perfect shape anyway. Then add the problem of enlarging it. I'm sure that eventually I'll improve on it.

Regarding things I don't like on KDE-LOOK, I just move along and ignore them.

Thanks,
Tim - Oct 07 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

While your question wasn't to me, maybe I can answer it for you.

Your view that a person's beliefs should be kept to himself ("privatized") is directly opposed to what Christ said when he said in Matthew 28 to go and spread the message. So, to privatize my faith, I must basically deny the charge given me by the Lord through His Word. I won't do that.

Can ideas be misunderstood? Sure! But I don't think you really want to silence anything that can be misunderstood.

How are non-Christians supposed to take it? As a proclaimation of the Gospel, which you are free to accept or reject. Jesus Christ (according to even secular historians) lived and died on the cross. The New Testament tells us why; as a substitute for us to pay for our sin.

God is JUST. He is also perfectly holy he cannot allow anything unholy in His presence. Since we are fallen, we can't do anything to save ourselves. So, God sent His Son to pay the penalty for us. By placing our trust in his finished work, we become "redeemed"...children of God. It's a 2000 year old message, which finds its roots even in the Old Testament.

So, the Judge has found you guilty, assessed an infinite fine against you, then come around this side of the bench and paid it...it's a gift that is yours to accept or reject.

Thanks, and blessings to you,

Tim - Oct 07 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

That was a "glowing steel" logo. I debated changing it last night but wasn't totally convinced about doing it. Thanks for giving me a "push". Sometimes that helps in decision making.

TIm - Oct 07 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

**over a few words.**

I think you hit it dead on...!

I don't really think its about the art per se. I don't think it has ever been. Art is (by definition) not a science. Hence the appeal of a given work will vary from person to person.

I agree with the font issue though, as it was commented on by someone else. As I get time I'll work on it.

Thanks,

Tim - Oct 07 2003

Got Christ?

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 130 comments

...I don't know why, but you are assuming I'm Catholic. The scriptures teach that Joseph "...kept her a virgin UNTIL..." the birth of Christ. And that is what I believe.

Thanks in any case,

Tim - Oct 07 2003

No Other Name

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 10 comments

Praise God! Thanks! - Oct 04 2003

Pascal's Glory

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 13 comments

Hey, thanks! I appreciate it!

Tim - Oct 02 2003

Pascal's Glory

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 13 comments

Hey NewLux...Did you download that "Look and Live" update?

Tim - Oct 01 2003

Pascal's Glory

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 13 comments

Actually, I'm working on one regarding biochemistry and irreducable complexity. Interesting stuff!

Thanks,

Tim - Oct 01 2003

Pascal's Glory

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 13 comments

Sure; I'll give it a try. Don't tell me I need TRIfocals!!!

Thanks,

Tim - Oct 01 2003

Earthsphere

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 18 comments

You know, I've had the feeling I've left something out; I think I may know what it was.

First, you must remember my target audience. I state clearly in the description who my work is for. They will have no problem with what I'm saying.

Secondly, while I am not able to know your specific motives, I have to question why someone would want to create a false dilemma between "Taking the bible literally at all times...and therefore it teaches error" or "Take it figuratively and it can mean anything...so everyone goes to heaven regardless" (and therefore nothing.)

Either path emasculates scripture whether it is intended or not.

The truth is that when the scriptures are approached it should be to 1)Find out what a verse SAYS. 2).Find out what it MEANS by what it says and 3)how it applies to my life.

The first is found just by reading the given passage a few times to let it soak in. The second is accomplished by using the principles of biblical hermeneutics, or principles of interpretation.

For example, you said I was using various scriptures as if they were in a vacuum. I would challenge you to prove the truth of that statement. My "Earthsphere" paper implements a verse from Isaiah 40, which is a chapter on the dominion of God and how He works in his Creation. Then you get to verse 22, which states that God "...sits above the vault (circle) of the earth". We know that God doesn't sit above the earth; God is a Spirit. This is called an "anthropomorphism" which depicts his dominion over us and the planet we live on, which He created. It's in context.

Job's verse on the Plaiedes and Orion; in context.

Job's statement about the Earth hung on nothing...in context.

Job through divine inspiration writes an allusion to the hydrologic cycle. In context.

You know, for many years, liberal and neo-orthodox theologians laughed at taking Jonah literally...why? "Because we all know that a man cannot be swallowed by a fish and live". So, they tried to make it refer to Israel as an allegory regarding captivity or some silly thing. Yet, in the past century, this has happened...a man was cut out of the whales belly...bleached and hairless, but alive.

If you are not a Christian (and I get the sense you are not), then you will NOT understand the care we take in interpretation. Can people get sloppy sometimes? Sure! But that is no reason to create this "Either/Or" bit.

Here's a very contemporary example of scripture abuse and what end up happening when you compare scripture with scripture...

"Gay theology" teaches that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of a "lack of hospitality", stating that evangelicals are wrong that it had to do with the sin of homosexuality. You really have to do some literary gymnastics to get there and it violates the obvious meaning of the text. Plus they fail to compare scripture with scripture...Jude states that it was because of the aforesaid immorality. This is an example of twisting the scriptures, which appears be with a view to justifing a political agenda or at least a preferred lifestyle.

So, if you are working with the scriptures correctly, you don't run into yourself somewhere else.

You know, I said the Bible teaches God is spirit...yet the bible says he protects his own beneath his "wings". That's just a word picture to show he cares for His children as a mother bird.Shelter; security. The bible also says that the Father will make earth the Son's footstool; yet I am not looking for very large sandals to appear that have "Red Wing" on the soles.

Anyway, I know I can't convince you against your will. If you don't know Christ, this issue is the least of your concerns. The Bible's theme is "God on a mission to save mankind". From Sin and condemnation and ultimate damnation. It tells us how He gave His One and Only Son for us...and how He forgave us even as our sins put us there...and when we were spitting in His face...which is what we do until we accept Him and His grace by faith! (Eph. 2:8,9).

'Tis it for me. Like I said, I KNEW I had left something out earlier. It was a post after this that helped me catch it.

Regards,

Tim - Sep 30 2003

Earthsphere

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 18 comments

Let me make one more addition to the above list...actually an expansion to "Context". There are many times where one scripture, coming later in the Bible, will illuminate the meaning of the earlier. This is an additional "check and balance" in the system that keeps us from simply making things mean what we want them to mean.

Again, thanks.

Tim - Sep 30 2003

Earthsphere

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 18 comments

No, it's not a problem. For example, if you tell me that you got up at sunrise and was unable to start your car I don't take that to mean that the sun literally moved upward while the earth stood still and then you went out and couldn't start your car. On the other hand I also don't say "...there must be some deeper hidden mystical meaning to the car thing...".

When you say that "the sun came up this morning" we know you are speaking in terms that couch things as they appear to the human eye.

To say that it's all one way or the other is to create a false delimma.

We take the Bible in it's literal, historical, grammatical and contextual sense. That means, we let it say what it says (while allowing for obvious figures of speech)...you and I do that all the time as in the example above! We put a given verse in it's historical context...so when, for example, Paul talks about female head coverings in 1 Corinthians, we understand why that was an issue of the day...it had to do with being different than the pagan women who made political statements by cutting their hair.

The verse in question must also be looked at in it's immediate context. So, when someone says "See, Galatians teaches salvation by baptism" I can point at the rest of the verse and say "No, read the rest of the verse..." This also has to do with the harmony of the passage in light of the immediate context as well as the given book of the Bible and how it fits with the whole of scripture.

Then of course there is the grammatical principle which has to do with the meaning of words, their syntax, etc. I always cringe when I see someone reach for an english dictionary when wanting to know the meaning of a word in Scripture. The original languages we deal with are Hebrew and (koine) Greek. I have a set of works on New testament Greek by Gerhard Kittle, ten volumes...with maybe 100 pages on a given word and how it was used in various ways.

People want to talk about "love". Yet noone can define it apart from *feelings* There are four words for Love: Storge, Agape, Phileo, and Eros.

Phileo--a brotherly love.

Storge--familial love (if I recall correctly)

Eros--erotic in nature, meant for those who are married.

Agape -- Acts of self-sacrifice which seek the true good of the object and doesn't count the cost or the worthiness of the person being loved (roughly stated). This is the word Jesus used when he said "No greater love has any man than this that he should lay down his life for his friends"...Which he then did on the cross, dying for our sin so we could be reconciled to God.

So, while we talk about "figures of speech", we don't do that flippantly.

The principles of hermeneutics can be expanded to more than this but that is the essense. But the main point is that they all work together...by accomodating something that is a figure of speech, we are not therefore forced to take the rest of the Bible as allegory.

I've said this tons of times here but for a long time people scoffed at the idea that Solomon lived. Christians were mocked, etc....then some archaeologist discovers something major that proves solomon really lived...and somehow it's "now ok" to believe that Solomon lived. The same is true for David, etc. This is only a couple of the things that have been uncovered by archaeology.

Again, we know from even secular history that CHrist really lived. Josephus, Turtullian and others testify to this. We also know Jesus CHrist died on the cross...but that he didn't remain in the tomb.

BUt all of this is meaningless if you don't know Christ."the natural man does not comprehend the things of God" the scriptures teach. The theme of the Bible is "God is on a mission to save mankind". From what? Sin. Rebellion. The things that we do that offend God. It's not about lighting candles, chanting or observing a mass or keeping a list of rules. It's about knowing the Person of Jesus Christ through a personal relationship. He made us...he made us all for the purpose of knowing Him and enjoying Him forever! That is why people fill their lives with *stuff* and still aren't happy. That *stuff* can be anything, no matter how *innocent* or perverse.

Blaise Pascal wrote "Inside every human heart is a God-shaped vacuum only God, as revealed through Jesus CHrist, can fill." He was right! That's why you see so many people work to get to "the top" only to say "there's gotta be more" when they get there. That's wjy people get into drugs, alcohol, pornography etc. (just like I did a long time ago). They are looking for Love, affirmation and ultimate purpose which can only be found from our Creator.

Anyway, thanks...

Tim - Sep 30 2003

Earthsphere

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 18 comments

That's right; nothing you've said invalidates the Bible. That's because history has demonstrated the accuracy of the Bible as well as archaeology.

The scriptures stand alone in their accuracy. Furthermore, even secular history records that Jesus Christ actually lived and died on a cross. But He didn't stay there...and athiests have come to faith in Christ after beginning a mission to disprove Christianity. They did this on their own, doing their own investigation.

So, when we Christians come to the scriptures and see verses that touch on things such as the Earth being hung on nothing (Job), the principle of hydrology (Job), the concept that visible things are made of things we can't see and other things, we rejoice! And please remember who my audience is.

The meaning of this word can mean a circle, a 'vault', or sphere. The meaning of the word is context driven. If you want to believe that it means the earth is like a dime on it's edge...go ahead. The point of the passage is that of God's dominion over the earth. The Unique validity of the Gospel remains and God's Word stands in either case.

I'm not surprised when people come along and choke on stuff like this. I don't know about you but there are lots of people who can't swallow their pride and even consider a possibility that there is one who made everything (which we normally expect when we see stuff around us) and will be Judge.

Thanks for your input.

Tim - Sep 30 2003

Job's Hydrology

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 25 comments

Thanks for the encouragement! God willing, there will be more coming!

Tim - Sep 30 2003

Job's Hydrology

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 25 comments

Hey my friend! Here's a few more references...

Ecclesiastes 1:7
All the rivers run into the sea,
Yet the sea is not full;
To the place from which the rivers come,
There they return again.

Job 26:8
He binds up the water in His thick clouds,Yet the clouds are not broken under it.

Job 37:11
Also with moisture He saturates the thick clouds; He scatters His bright clouds. - Sep 29 2003

Job's Hydrology

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 25 comments

"He draws up drops of water..."
True...and how would he know that?

"Which distill as rain from the mist".
True...and how would Job know what was going on with the moisture in the sky?

"Which the clouds drop down and pour abundantly on man". True. Rain.

"Can anyone understand the spreading of His clouds..."
In context, this perhaps makes reference to the gathering of water in the clouds.

Sure, he doesn't make reference to oceans...but a science report is not his point...but rather the interaction of God with what we see around us. He doesn't make references to runoff and infiltration but what is intriguing is that what he refers to is *UNSEEN*. Job was written nearly 4000 years ago.

As far as hail and snow being required? No, if so, then the hydrologic cycle is not going on in Hawaii.

Some falls as runoff, SOME goes to water tables, so you don't have to have it *all* to have the cycle. It "comes down, moves around and goes back up!".

BTW, thanks for the complement on my work!

Tim - Sep 29 2003

Job's Hydrology

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 25 comments

...although I know sooner or later, you *won't* like something I do. But, such is artwork.

tim - Sep 29 2003

Earthsphere

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 18 comments

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to make the tie-in between the hebrew and Latin: The Hebrew term can also mean "Sphere" which is no doubt what the Latin translators caught.

Re: Satan showing Christ the nations of the earth...You are trying to apply natural limits to the supernatural. I'm sure that even from the pinnacle of the temple, a person could not "See the nations of the world" even with a flat earth. So, a flat earth doesn't help!

Tim - Sep 29 2003

Earthsphere

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 18 comments

Well; we can agree on one thing; the Jewish scholars are right in saying that we have a young earth...about a flat earth, however, that would *have* to be another story.

One principle of biblical hermeneutics is that you must allow for figures of speech. Normally we take scripture in it's literal sense, but we do make allowances just the way we do in other things.

You know, we often say "wasn't that a beautiful sunrise" but we know the sun didn't "Rise". Ok, I guess we should say "Isn't that a nice rotation of the earth?" Regarding the "four corners" of the earth, we hear that expression from people even today who believe the earth is a *GLOBE*. It speaks of completeness.

Next time you say "at least today the sun is shining" i hope you aren't thinking that literally. You know it always is. Yet we all speak in ways that express things as they APPEAR...not always in literal terms.

Four quarters? I can have four quarters of an orange can't I?

With all due respect to you, if you *really* believe the earth is flat after all the space missions we've had, all the photos we've taken, and all the *oberservation* that has been done, there are more basic things I think I'd work on if I were you...

By the way, I think the Latin translators, who sought accuracy, DID use the word for globe.

Best wishes in any case,

Tim - Sep 29 2003

Job's Hydrology

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 25 comments

Thanks!

I'll see what I can do. I did *not* take the photo; although it is public domain. I do have a higher res version but escaping artifacting might still be an issue.

Again, thanks.

Tim - Sep 29 2003

Job's Hydrology

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 25 comments

thanks! - Sep 29 2003

Look and Live

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 19 comments

Thanks alot! I really appreciate your thoughts!

Best wishes,

TIm - Sep 28 2003

Look and Live

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 19 comments

While I'm waiting for you to answer the above, I thought I'd add the following...

Well, let's see...The Bible has been verified as accurate through secular historians and archaeology (unlike other "religious books")...when it speaks of science, it has been proven accurate...even though the authors had no way of knowing *on thier own* that they were right...such as the earth being a globe hung on nothing...the hydrologic cycle, etc....

The Scriptures tell us that everything was made by a *Someone* which is what we *normally* expect...we don't normally expect SUV's to pop into being from nothing, do we...although that would be nice!

You know, I am an *Evangelical*, which has a 2000 year history. Our country was built on the faith I embrace. The majority of our founding fathers were evangelicals.

I don't go to church and give money to keep from going to Hell. I go to church to be with God's people because God has redeemed me. He has given me a heart that loves Him.

I used to be a very bitter guy. I had no room for GOd in my life. It wasn't preaching that got me, or anything like that connected to religion at all. In fact, it was the furthest thing from my mind. God intervened in my life directly. It wasn't till later that I found out that what happened to me was in the Bible.

So, I have a heart of thanks and worship for God. It's not 'religion' but a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, who is THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Life.

Again, I will be waiting for your response to the above message.

THanks and take care!

TIm - Sep 28 2003

Look and Live

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 19 comments

Scientists have proven that God doesn't exist? That's news to me.

While you are at it, please answer the following questions. You know, evolution is being tought as fact, so that shouldn't be a problem; any FACT has verifiable evidence...

In any given organism, what evolved first; the desire to eat, the capacity to eat, the ability to digest food, and the ability for the stomach to resist gastric acid?

How did organisms survive bleeding until coagulation evolved? Once coagulation (clotting) started to evolve, how did it stop before the entire animal clotted?

How did the IRREDUCABLY COMPLEX CELL come into being? Being irreducably complex, it couldn't live without being complete to begin with?

Oh, here's a really easy one; the Darwin fish. Where is the documented fossil? Or is that a hoax?

Please, I'd like answers...if there are any...

Takes greater faith to believe in evolution...where something came out of nothing and created itself???

It's all yours!

TIm - Sep 28 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Yup, Epicurus. He was a hedonist.

Evolutionary ideas can be tracked back to Epicurus, who did not arrived at his ideas from science, but from preference. And after all these years, even with our 'advanced' science, we still can't show the hypothesis true through the Scientific Method, which is how an hypothesis is SUPPOSED to be shown to be true. Yet, evolution is being tought as fact, while not scientifically shown to be true. It's just a theory.

Even Darwin was deeply disturbed by the lack of fossil evidence. And, of course, if are tons of missing links, then there should be tons of fossils for them. Where are they? After more than 100 years, where are they?

If I told you that the car you see me driving just "popped into existance" from nowhere on it's own into my driveway, you'd rightly think I was a fruit loop escaped from a cereal box. Yet, this is the root of evolutionary thought. I don't believe that. When is the last time you saw this happen?

If this is true, then you'd better look more than two ways before crossing the street -- it may happen again!

You have to wonder, what are the motives for believing this without evidence? Political ends for certain movements who don't want a God and with it Right and WRong? No Accountability for how you live?

Anyway, just a few more notes and wanted to confirm Epicurus.

Thanks for your time,

Tim
- Sep 28 2003

Look and Live

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 19 comments

Obviously you are very convinced about being a christian. Tell me, how does one become a Christian?

Thanks,

Tim - Sep 26 2003

Look and Live

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 19 comments

Thanks! I may not be what I could be, but I'm not what I was!

I've been looking and reviewing this one for quite some time, and I guess the nature of art is going to be it is "not for everyone". Certainly not those who don't know Christ.

Maybe I'll send the next one to you for review and suggestions?

Blessings, brother!

Tim - Sep 26 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Remember, the Bible is NOT "a book", but rather a collection of 66 books. Add to that the fact that the Old Testament was written over a very long period of time, by many different authors who did NOT consult each other.

Think about this...take a number of authors and ask them to write a book about GOD and what he has done...and what He is like. You'll get as many different answers as you have authors. BUT the bible is not like this. It is in harmony with itself.

The disciples, while Christ was alive, were a bunch of scaredy cats. Peter even denied Christ three times when asked if he knew Christ, once by a woman who posed no threat. However, after the death of Christ, all but one of the disciples, John, died a martyr's death for the sake of Christ. We know this from not only scripture but other writings. What made the difference? 1 Corinthians 15, in the first few verses it records that Christ rose from the dead and appeared to many, including one group of 500 people.

Now, we KNOW christ lived, we KNOW Christ was crucified (again, not just from the Bible). The tomb is empty (well, except for the burial cloths)....what happened to the BODY?

If you can disprove the ressurrection, you can destroy Christianity.

Ok, what is a religion? What do people mean by a religion? Well, I don't see myself as "religious"...I don't do a mass, I don't do candles and chanting, etc. I have a relationship with the Risen Lord.

I can't "prove" God, but I can pile evidence upon evidence.

You know, when I see a car come down the street, I don't think "Gee, that's a nice car, I think I'll wait for one to pop into existence right here in my drive". I know I have to get one from the dealer who got one from the MANUFACTURER.

When we see things around us, such as a monolith, we don't think it just appeared. We know that is silly. Yet, somehow, something like PEOPLE, who are far more complex, happened by accident? From nothing? On it's own?

I'm giving you evidence for what I believe. It is verifiable. Any theory, much less something proclaimed as fact (such as evolution in the public school system) should be able to be verified by hard evidence to basic questions. Evolution claims to be based on science.

For example, for any given organism, which evolved first, the drive to eat, the stomach, the digestive tract, or the ability of the stomach to resist the acids that dissolve the food? How did the first organisms keep from bleeding to death until clotting evolved??? If they couldn't live, how could they evolve?

Here's an easy one: Where is the fossil for the Darwin fish?

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not trying to be nasty and humiliate anyone...but many claim that Christianity is just "empty headed religion" Yet I can give you more good hard evidence for what I believe than "scientists" can for evolution...which by the way started in the third century by (Epicurius???) who simply wanted to have a way to live as he pleased...he didn't start it based on any science. I'll check to see if it was epicurius.

Again, blessings to you. Don't take me as being agressive, I'm just trying to help you see what's going on.

Thanks,

Tim - Sep 26 2003