Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Good morning!

If I seem to be "narrow minded" then that may be because the truth claims of Christ are narrow. In fact, the nature of "Truth" is inherently narrow. This flys in the face of postmodernism which tries to say that "all truth claims are equally true". I know, this is called "bigotry" and "arrogant". But that doesn't change the nature of Truth. I often wonder what would happen if a doctor told some postmodernist that the "only way" to get rid of a medical problem was a very risky procedure. "Aren't you being too narrow?...there are many ways to get rid of this."

Someone far wiser than me has said that if we had 3000 ways to God, we'd want 3001 simply because we demand autonomy. He is right!

There are many people from the past (as opposed to being from the future????) who have claimed to be from God and claimed to make statements for God. The Old Testament says basically that anyone who does something like that and then what they say doesn't happen, they are false. In other words, real "prophets" make predictions that come true without fail.

I have here in my hand, a book by Grant R. Jeffrey entitled "Armageddon, Appointment with Destiny". What he says in the early part of this book has been echoed by many others. Here is a sketch.
We know Jesus Christ lived. Secular history (Josephus, Turtullian, etc) confirms this. We also know what he did, from the Biblical record (in any court of law, it is acceptable for the defense to testify on his/her own behalf...and the New Testament has already been confirmed by archaeology as historically accurate). As a matter of fact, through history, countless (I don't mean that as an exaggeration) have set out to tear down the Bible and became converts to Christianity because of the accuracy they found. Sir WIlliam Ramsay, for example did so while on a mission to destroy the credibility of the Gospel of Luke. He discovered how accurate Luke is and how true Luke's statement is in the early verses of Luke, where he said "It seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning to write it out for you in consecutive order...so that you may know the EXACT truth about the things you have been tought." HIstory and archaeology has confirmed that is what Luke accomplished. So, the defense has spoken, and has been found true by those without a vested interest in "finding something".

Let's just take 11 prophecies regarding the life of Christ. I get this from the book I mentioned earlier. According to the old testament, the Messiah that was to come would:

Be born in Bethlehem (1 chance in 200)

Be preceded by a messenger (1 in 20)

Enter Jerusalem on a colt (1 in 50)

Be betrayed by a friend (1 in 10)

Have his hands and feet pierced (1 in 100)

Be wounded by His enemies (1 in 25)

Be sold for 30 pieces of silver (1 in 100)

Be spit on and beaten (1 in 10)

Have his betrayal money thrown in the temple and given for a potter's field (1 in 200)

Be silent to His accusers (1 in 100)

Be Crucified with thieves (1 in 100)

That is ONLY 11. There are MANY more, such as being offered gall as a drink while dying on the cross. Also, note that He did *NOT* have control over some of this, so a person can't just say "Well, he knew this stuff and knew what to do..." No. that doesn't work.

Anyway, the COMBINED probability of all this is ONE CHANCE in 10 to the 19th POWER.
that is like
one in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000.

And again, doesn't deal with other prophecies.

Others who have calculated the odds on similar parameters have reported that it is like covering the state of Texas 1 foot deep with silver dollars, one of which has a dot on it. Then have a sky diver drop down, land and just pick it up.

If that happened, we'd say it was rigged. Yes, God did it.

This is only ONE small example. Not any one thing stands on it's own...the issue of the earth being a sphere, the issue of being hung on nothing, a reference to plate tectonics (I'd have to hunt that one down), none of these things stand on their own. But taken together, it becomes much more obvious.

I don't remember precisely what evidence you may be asking for, but I'll let you remind me. Furthermore, I had entered more in this response, but my connection got timed out and I lost it; and now I am not sure what else I had added. I'm sure you understand what I'm talking about.

If it comes back to mind, I'll put it here.

Anyway, just a few things to consider.

Blessings to you,

Tim - Sep 26 2003

Look and Live

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 19 comments

Hey, that's like a breath of fresh air! Thanks for the encouragement and your prayers!

Tim - Sep 26 2003

Look and Live

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 19 comments

Thanks Alex!

About the fonts, I need to get truetypes working with them; I haven't messed with that since switching from RedHat to Suse 8.2.

Tim - Sep 25 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Sure! - Sep 25 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

About your experience with mormonism. Again, there is some confusion about what "Christian" is. Mormonism looks like, but is not, "christian".

I don't know what all you know about the Gospel. The plain fact is that God, through CHrist, calls everyone to a personal relationship with Him. That's what you were made for.

Blaise Pascal said that "Inside every human being is a God-shaped vacuum that only God, as revealed through Jesus Christ can fill." That's why people become addicted to things that aren't even necessarily biologically addiective. They are trying to fill that hole. Rich people, famous people, piling up bucks, cars, etc., then saying "I'm still not happy." There's a reason. Blaise Pascal just said why.

You are responsible for your personal decision. All I'm doing is giving evidences that whisper "God". You know, yesterday when I was answering a guy's message (a few rungs up from this one...I think "Meaningless" is the title), I thought of adding a couple more evidences...but I ignored it. Lo and Behold, when I came back, someone asked a question about those very specific evidences...out of all the evidence that I am aware of, what are the odds?

If you are looking for God to come down and say "HERE I AM...I'VE PROVEN MYSELF TO YOU" that's not faith. That's not even humility.

The Bible, ultimately, is not about "The Stars, Globular Clusters and the Chart of the Elements". It is about God on a Mission to save Mankind. It just happens to give enough information to those who are seeking so that they can see they can trust it.

When you take your car to the guy who changes the oil, you don't make him PROVE he can do it this time, you see a tendency to do things right and you TRUST that he will continue the pattern when he gets to yours. The bible gives us even more assurance than that.

I don't know what kind of legalism you may have faced growing up. You may have had some bad experiences. But please don't confuse that with Christianity. And, don't chose to harden your heart against the One who loves you so much that He died for you.

Take care,
Tim - Sep 25 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Oh, give me a break! That's pretty plain imagery. He said that it IS hung...but on nothing...which is what it looks like from space. Let's not try to group this statement in with other (fallacious) suggestions.

If you really are determined to NOT believe, no matter what the evidence, then that is your choice. No need to get into the historical/archeological evidence that further points to the accuracy of the Bible. It would be a waste of your time and mine.

Thanks anyway,

TIm - Sep 25 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Thanks for your clarification. Trying to get the proper sense of what someone has typed can sometimes be difficult because you don't hear inflection, etc., that you do with spoken words.

Yes, Jesus did say that. However, the Jews did not understand their need for a new birth (John 3). They thought that God was indeed their "heavenly father". In the created sense, yes. In the spiritual sense, no. In John 8, the Lord told the pharisees (who were very legalistic and conciencious of keeping lists of do's and don'ts) that they were of their father, "the devil".

The Jews would think of God as their father because of the promise of God to Abraham. THey thought being a Jew made them "special". Christ's words were a resounding "WRONG".

No one has direct access to God the Father except through Christ, His Son. That's because our sin (the wrong things we do) are an offense to God. THe reason why Christ had to die was to pay for our sin...he literally took yours and mine on Himself! Kind of like having a billion dollars worth of parking tickets and the judge comes down from the bench, and pays them, goes back up to the bench and says "paid in full". Only we (just as the Jews of CHrist's time) must turn from our sin and trust the finished work of CHrist on our behalf. Kind of like if you're drowning and you must reach up to hold the hand of the person rescuing you.

Yes, it ticked them off. It tore them to shreads because he cut through every facade they were holding onto.

The tragedy is that they didn't listen!

SOrry I didn't get to this sooner. I just found your note!

TIm - Sep 25 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Been there, done that...for a large secular university; but it's been a couple or three years.

Regarding the wallpapers, there be more comin! In fact, I have two I could upload now, maybe soon though.

Blessings to you..and great news about your job!

Tim - Sep 24 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Well, thanks! I'm also glad that things didn't "break down" between us.

By the way, do you happen to have any references to those who would differ with the view I presented? I haven't heard of any.

Thanks,

Tim - Sep 24 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Cool Jeff! They're here for those such as yourself!

Blessings to you,

TIm - Sep 24 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Sorry, I forgot to add that Job 26:7 also says that the world is "hung on nothing". Good enough?

RE: persecution of those who diagreed with "tradition". Yes, that was wrong. Horribly wrong. But that doesn't prove that Christianity is false.

First, you have to understand what "christianity" is. The word has come to mean almost anything and therefore nothing. A "Christian" is one who has been supernaturally been "reborn" spiritually, having turned from sin and embracing Christ as savior and Lord. These are the real "Christians"...not an official "church" somewhere. It's lumping that event together with biblical Christianity that leads to the confusion you are talking about.

Jesus tought that a true believer is one who obeys Him. If you see someone who is going around murdering people, you know that their profession of faith is most likely false. Example: recently a man wa s put to death for killing an abortion doctor. He claimed to be a christian yet showed no repentance for his act. That is inconsistent with the faith. Was he for real? Only the Lord knows...but there is good reason to doubt he was really a believer. The peripheral tragedy is that people (like yourself) are given the idea that this is what CHristianity is about. It is most assuredly not.

Thanks again,

TIm - Sep 24 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Why didn't he/she tell anybody that earth is like a sphere?

Actually, the bible teaches this. See my wallpaper re:Earthsphere.

FYI, there's lots of other stuff like that too, if you wish to discuss it!

Thanks...and I do believe in UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS...but not flying saucers...

Tim - Sep 24 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Actually, I was thinking of making one with a trumpet theme and a psalm that says "Praise the Lord with the sound of trumpets."

Really! Thanks for the reminder.

Tim - Sep 24 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Well, then you are assuming Job "knew" about "bound and unbound" systems before he even "made a guess." Then you have to assume he guessed both correctly! If you want to go in that direction, you certainly have the right to make that decision.

The problem that you will run into, eventually, is that the scriptures have many such accounts that make no sense from a purely human standpoint. This is by far not the only case where something is stated as fact before we "discovered" it.

Taken as one instance...I can see where you question. It's when you put it all together with the historical, archaeological and other evidence that this takes on more significance. But then, as I stated in the description, I put the paper here for believers, who will already recognize what I'm saying and appreciate from where it comes.

Thanks for your input. I do appreciate it.

Tim - Sep 24 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

I have given you scientific facts, not superstition...unless of course, you think NASA engages in such.

The only question left (which you still have not dealt with) is "How could Job have written something that we have only recently come to discover". The terms are even technically correct terms.

Dislike the messenger if you like. It's not about the messenger but rather the message.

"superstition" is a term that is contraindicated by what the evidence shows.

Thanks,
Tim - Sep 24 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Regarding your quote from Revelation...Yes, it is at hand.

As fortold in Scripture:

1). The upcoming building of the fourth temple at Jerusalem and the resumption of sacrifices.

2). The movement toward a world government. Happening.

3). The movement toward a (false) world religion. Yup.

4). The movement toward a one world economy.

5). The development of technology that would be inserted *IN" a person's hand or forehead to contain personal information and the key to buying and selling anything, according to Revelation. Experimentations on the technology have begun and are a precursor of what *will* come.

6). The formation of the EU, which is a form of revived "Roman Empire".

...and on and on and on.

But Jesus Christ remains Lord of All. This Jesus, or 'Yeshua', is spoken of in Jeremiah, Isaiah 53, Psalm 22 and elsewhere. He is the Bread of Life even as people choose to spiritually starve, the Light of the world, even while men prefer to remain blind. He is the Way, even though people want to wander around in circles, He is the Truth, even though men prefer lies. And He is the Life, even though for some reason people prefer to perish.

The end of The Book tells us how it will end. The rest of the book shows us we can *bank on it*.

Unashamed to claim His Name...

Tim - Sep 24 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Thanks for the encouragement! If that's all I do (encourage you in Christ), then my purpose before Christ is served!

Blessings to you,

TIm - Sep 24 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Well, Plaiedes is estimated to last another BILLION years before it starts to break up. (The Night Sky", Hodder & Stoughton, 1993, p 61)

Orion is already expanding.

That's the point. -- one is bound (however loosely) the other is not.

If you have DOCUMENTATION for the contrary, please supply it.

Thanks,

Tim - Sep 24 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Well, actually, if you really didn't care, why have you put so much effort into responding? Usually indifference means you ignore something.

BTW, I used to get blasted once in a while, so I understand what can be said under the influence. Nothing personal taken from it.

Thanks,

Tim - Sep 24 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Jesus said "Go forth and tell..." My paraphrase, see the end of Matthew 28.

The teachings of Paul and Jesus both included that people would be offended by the message.

My wallpaper description states that it is here for believers in Christ. There are plenty on KDE-LOOK. I'm sure the downloaders aren't turned off by it. Only the ones who choose to spend time looking at it and responding to it have a problem with it. That's a minority.

In any case, the commission of Christ remains.

People aren't forced to view this, nor return to make further comments.

The wallpaper makes a claim that the scriptures are scientifically accurate about an astronomical truth. This is what I wish you would think about.

Thanks Brahma for your input.
Tim - Sep 24 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

>Obviously the poster knows very little about astronomy.

Well, acutally, my information comes from NASA and from research by Sir Fred Hoyle, etc.

The information is open for verification. If you can demonstrate that it is clearly wrong, please do, and supply references.

Thanks for your input regardless,

Tim - Sep 23 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

I appreciate your point. While Orion is loosed and therefore deteriorating, Pleaides is not. It is bound (c.f. "Frontiers of Astronomy" by Prof. F. Hoyle, p. 236, 238...etc.) In fact, estimates that I have seen estimate it will be bound for the next million years. It is not breaking up.

Tnanks for the discourse. I will be out this evening, so if you respond I may not get back to it for a bit.

Tim - Sep 23 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Well, I can supply other refs if you want, but to give a quick response, the following is from NASA:

"The Pleiades cluster is an "open" (or "galactic") cluster of stars about 400 light years from Earth. Open clusters are loosely bound together by gravitation, and usually contain young, bright stars."

Thanks,

Tim - Sep 23 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Let me see if I understand what you are saying, ok?

You appear to be saying that there is "no ONE truth". In other words, all "truth" is relative and equally "true".

There are two schools of philosophy which attempt to get to "Truth". Western and Eastern. Western uses the law of non-contradiction and logic. Eastern uses "Both/And" which is the basis of much postmodern thought.

So, you have western that says two contradictory ideas cannot be true at the same time, and Eastern which says everything is equally true.

So, while it appears you are using the product of Eastern philosophy, you are using western philosophy to discredit that there is "one truth"?

So, in other words you claim to rest on the eastern system while wanting to hold on to western just to discredit it?

See an inconsistency???

Thanks,

Tim - Sep 23 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Hi Kuba!

Yup, it sure is...although lots of people don't realize it, and many wish it weren't. It militates against presuppostions.

Thanks,
Tim - Sep 23 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Simply done, it's pretty straightforward as in the description:

At the time Job lived (over 2000 years ago), man did not have knowlege of astronomy. Even more importantly, we didn't understand the nature of "bound" and "unbound" constellations. How would we know? This is a relatively modern discovery. Yet, Job, over 2000 years ago, referred to these as "bound and unbound". This is not an abscure guess as to what the scriptures teach about pleiades and orion, this is simply what it SAYS.

So, if the Bible is "just another book" that is "outdated", how does one account for this scientific accuracy, stated way ahead of it's time?

Thanks

Tim - Sep 23 2003

Pleiades Bound, Orion Loosed

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 90 comments

Even though this was posted primarily for other believers, anyone can respond in a number of ways; three off the top of my head. 1) as you have 2) ignore it 3) deal with the truth claim contained therein.

It's my hope that people who don't agree with the Christian position will take the time to examine the claim and the implications it represents.

Thanks,

Tim - Sep 23 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Well, you obviously don't understand the metaphor I'm using but at least you've let me know what you think! :) - Sep 22 2003

Earthsphere

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 18 comments

Hi Soulrebel:

Thanks for the input. The paper is a reference to scripture that makes a reference to the spherical nature of the earth. Job was written Thousands of years ago; supposedly at a time when people did not understand this fact. Yet, here it is, recorded in Scripture. The Bible makes many such references, contrary to popular belief.

Thanks,

Tim - Sep 22 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Yeah, Yaba, I thought about that, but then I kept the old version. Then again, resubmitting it would have cleared alot of the foul comments out :)

Thanks for the suggestion. Maybe with the next update I'll just resubmit it.

Thanks,

Tim - Sep 22 2003

Love2

Wallpaper Other by alethia 9 comments

Yes, he did do a good job, didn't he?

Tim - Sep 22 2003

Earthsphere

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 18 comments

Text doesn't disqualify something as good wallpaper; I've seen good examples of that at digitalblasphemy.org among other places, including here.

Thanks for the complement in any case,

Tim - Sep 21 2003

Earthsphere

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 18 comments

Thanks Kuba! I appreciate the input!

Tim - Sep 21 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

No, I don't think you really read it. Jesus Christ said He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. There is no other source but Christ. No access to God the Father but through Christ.Christ is making a claim of exclusivity. All paths don't lead to God.

Tim - Sep 20 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Thanks for the Words of Life, Bro!

Tim - Sep 20 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Thanks for the response...and it is no problem at all. The Christian faith is open to investigation. Contrary to the believe of many, the basis of the Christian faith is not some sort of mental “Gomez Addams train wreck” where “truth” is found in mystical contradictions. To the contrary, so much of the faith is historically, archaeologically and scientifically verifiable, which reminds me of another Heinlein quote that I'll address later...

There are at least two layers to the deception in what Heinlein argues on that paper...

1).I can do anything I want and then simply decide I want God and that gets me to heaven. False. This is a utilitarian view of God and His grace (this is the second layer of deception...that you can approach God like a vending machine). There are a number of people who portray this by claiming to be Christians simply because they have “prayed a prayer.” God honors a contrite heart, according to Proverbs, and gives grace those who humble themselves before Him.

2).I can do good works all my life then commit a sin, die, then go to hell. False. No one gets God's grace (unmerited favor) by works...”by works of the flesh shall no man be saved.” God loves me just as much today as he will when I mess up. God won't love me more if I don't mess up. It's not about “what I do to appease God” it's about what God has done for me.

Here's a good analogy of why Christ had to die...Let's say you're on trial. You have been found guilty and the judge has declared that your punishment is some huge fine that you could NEVER pay. You know it, he knows it. Yet, you owe this fine! Well, then imagine that suddenly the judge gets up from his bench, removes his robe, comes around the front of the bench and pays the fine for you. He then returns, puts on his robe and sits back down and declares your fine paid in full.

That's what Christ has done. God sent his One and Only Son to pay the death penalty for our sin...in this case, the penalty being eternal punishment apart from God. But we must appropriate it by faith to make it effective. God's righteous judgement was being applied to Christ on our behalf.

God's mercy keeps us from being instantly blown away and put in hell, his grace gives us a way out of the penalty.

So, if you are a father, maybe you can see why the utilitarian view of Heinlein will not be honored by God...It cheapens what you did and what your son did by dying for those who approach the sacrifice flippantly.

Another straw man from Heinlein:
“History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis...” He then goes off with an ad hominem attack.

With regard to the Christian faith, he is WRONG. There are more manuscripts available for the bible than for any other book which claims to be from God. Multiple thousands of manuscripts....much more even than Homer's Illyad, which has only may 600, I believe...yet no one questions that work because of the manuscripts. As to historical evidence, even secular historians of the day (such as Tertullian and Josephus) testify to many things in the new testament. When the Bible speaks of science, it is correct...such as the earth as a sphere (Isaiah 40), and in Job where Job states that the Lord “Hung the earth on nothing.” Now, how did Job know that? How did Isaiah know that? The bible also alludes to the hydrological cycle and geological isostacy (earth balanced like a tire). These are things that those guys couldn't have known in and of themselves.

Oh. In the old testament, God commanded that the Hebrews circumcise their children at 8 days of age. Just recently, we have discovered that the immune system is at it's height at 8 days! Everything is made of atoms, which should be flying apart. No one (secular view) knows WHY they don't fly apart. This applies for everything throughout the universe. Yet, the New Testament says that God “holds all things together by the word of His power....while the apostle Peter says that one day creation will be destroyed (then recreated)...and the description is a picture of what would happen if God merely stops holding everything together...fission....”the elements will melt with fervent heat.” I know, these phrases aren't constructed as typical scientific statements, but they again, they don't claim the earth rides on the back of a turtle either! Maybe that will stimulate some analytical thought...:)

Anyway, thanks for the dialog. I'll bet Uninet can cover this more thoroughly than I can, but it is a privilege to share this with you. I hope it makes some sense to you.

Tim - Sep 19 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Kuba:

Excuse me for dumping even more on you, but I want to say something as an example before I forget it -- being 49 :)...

Kleric has posted a "paper" regarding "Is that the system". He has a quote on that paper that sounds good...but it's not accurate. The person who said that doesn't understand how the Gospel works but rather set up a "straw man" argument (intentionally or unintentionally). It feeds the misunderstanding of true conversion, and leads to further confusion.

It contains a number of fallacies which I won't get into unless you ask...mainly because my coffee hasn't kicked in yet...and that's when I get off track, etc.

You know, I want you to understand how much I appreciate your questions. At least you're willing to discuss things and try to understand things than just get into ad hominem attacks. I applaud that!

Thanks,

Tim - Sep 19 2003

Job 26:7

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 7 comments

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I've been to that site, but it's been a while. I'll have to give it another look.

Tim - Sep 19 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Kuba:

I would agree that alot of horrible stuff has gone on in the name of religion...and some of it even in the name of Christianity. But please don't lump it all together...

No doubt you know from the news that a guy was put to death that killed an abortionist. And the name of Christ took a big blow from that. Plus too, other, larger issues from the past in the name of "Christianity".

If you will bear with me, let me make a simple point...and that is to define what a real Christian is.

A real believer in Jesus Christ is someone who has turned from sin and embraced Christ as savior and LORD. I have turned over control of my life to Christ. That means I obey His Word. In addition, Jesus Christ Himeself said that if someone really is his follower, they will obey what He says. That is the test.

In Matthew 7, Jesus says that (on the day of judgement) "...many will say to Me "Lord Lord, did we not..." do this or that. But He will reject them because they were not true converts. And there have been alot of false professions of faith made by lots of people. It confuses the issue.

Jesus said "By this people will know you, if you have love one for another." To care about the needs of others. If they don't show that, eventually you deduce that they are talking the talk and not really a believer. Sure, we mess up. But if someone is a non-repentant murderer as that guy was, I have to label his claim to Christ as false. If the Spirit of God lives in that person, his life will show it -- you can't repress it.

Let me tell you something. I have no doubt in my heart that if anyone of the people here who have spoken poorly of us, etc., were to show up at my house, I would have no problem showing them very open hospitality. Why? Because the Spirit of God enables me. Uninet, or any of the others would no doubt be the same way.

I can call myself a feminist and do lots of harm to the feminist image and not really be a feminist. You can tell a true feminist by the lifestyle.

I hope this helps...

Tim - Sep 19 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Hi Kuba!

All I can tell you is that the "New" tolerance is defined as embracing the (conflicting) values of others as equally valid as your own. You don't have the right to say someone is "wrong" to do something...that sets up a hierarchy of values with is anathema to postmodernism.I"m not sure precisely what you mean by "tolerance" but it sounds closer to the "old" definition, which I agree with...and makes logical sense.

If you ask someone who really believes in the new definition of tolerance if the holocaust againt the Jews was wrong, they will say something like "Well, I can't say it's wrong..." and might say they aren't comfortable with it or something like that. Statements like that are already on record from college students, etc. who are getting pumped this stuff.

See, if evolution is true, then all that matters is the here and now. If all that matters is the here and now, and there is no God, then 1) there can be no right and wrong (at all, ultimately)..and 2) grab everything while you're alive. Hence the cardinal sin of postmodernism is daring to stand up and say "Hey, that's not right".

Again, the old "Webster's dictionary" def of tolerance sounds like what you are describing...maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks, Kuba. I'm glad I could get on here...my dialup really is bad tonight!

Tim - Sep 19 2003

Love2

Wallpaper Other by alethia 9 comments

Well, I can't answer for anyone else who has posted Christian related work here, but I can tell you that what I post is for other believers...and there are a number of us here from CSFLUG.

When I see "art" out there that I don't like...or a topic that offends me, I don't give it the time of day. In fact, The only time I've voted for anything here was when I LIKED something. I don't rip anything (not that you have but others do), or flame anyone (ditto). I just pass it by.

It's a choice!

Tim - Sep 18 2003

Love2

Wallpaper Other by alethia 9 comments

...the Divine act of self-sacrifice to pay a debt He did not owe in order to fulfill a debt we could not pay! The difference between Christianity and all other religions...human achievement vs. Divine Accomplishment!

Press on!

Tim - Sep 18 2003

Love

Wallpaper Other by alethia 2 comments

Another koine greek form of the word which we could paraphrase as "for real" or "really"! - Sep 18 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Hi Tim:

Give it another try. Yes, it was full!

TimB - Sep 17 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Whoa! You were fast on the response!

I was going to add a bit about the differences in eastern/western approches to ascertaining truth and how that applies to the issue of "Tolerance"...but I'll hold off.

Thanks for being upfront. I appreciate it deeply!

Tim - Sep 17 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

I certainly appreciate the open tone of your message. Maybe I can clarify a bit.

Just so we know what we're discussing, bear with me a second...

The "old" tolerance (now referred to as "Negative tolerance") is defined as "I may not agree with you but you have the right to be / or believe as you choose."

The new definition of tolerance ("Positive Tolerance") teaches that I must agree with you that what you practice or believe is equally valid as what I practice or believe.

This is based on "pluralism" which teaches that there is no "metanarrative" or overriding value or norm. Thus, there is no Objective Moral Truth.

Since there is no absolute truth, which is applicable to everyone universally all the time (such as a law from God), you find the truth in yourself, invent it, whatever. You must make your own meaning and truth and you have no right to say that anything anyone says or does is "wrong".

In other words (just for analogy), the National Institute of Standards has nothing on file for what we measure as a "foot". So, it's whatever you want it to be.

Of course, this ASSUMES no metanarrative. Christians teach that there IS one, and while you cannot scientifically "prove" it, there is sufficient evidence. Not everything can be proven scientifically. Try to prove that Caesar lived thru science. Yet we know he did because of historical/legal evidence.

Anyway, "Tolerance" teaches no absolutes, no absolute truth. Biblical Christianity teaches that there is.

Believers in Christ are told to share the faith, to call those who don't know Christ to a saving relationship with Him. There isn't one person on this planet that wasn't made for a personal relationship with God thru Christ. Blaise Pascal said it well when he said (paraphrased) "Inside every person is a God-shaped hole that only God, as revealed through Jesus Christ, can fill.) This is part of the real metanarrative.

Furthermore, if you consider the definition of love by Christ ("No greater love has any man than this, that he should lay his life down for his friends") as an act of self-sacrifice for the welfare of another, maybe you can see where the collision is.

The world is seeking fulfillment in 'self'. When they see us saying 'no, it's elsewhere', that is a cardinal sin in the view of the 'tolerant'.

I hope this helps.

Tim - Sep 17 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Don't worry, I don't. First off, I know I can't please everyone anyway and secondly, I don't expect professionalism out of myself. When I see a criticism, I don't sweat answering it, I just sit back and look it over and consider it. Acutally, an earlier version was better, should have kept it. So I'll redo it. The maze was less intrusive.Which reminds me:

Take another look at the verse. You can't get through the maze except through the one path. Should fall together for ya!

Actually, I've got a file my wife loves...and I haven't submitted it. I want to be sure that it's all legal first.

Take care!

Tim - Sep 17 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

--faith is not the reverse of love

Dead on. Indifference is the opposite of love, which is why "tolerance" as it is being redefined is incompatible with Christianity.

Also, Revelation 3, the church of Laodicea. It was lukewarmness (indifference to their condition and to the Lord) that led to Christ stating "...I will spew you out of my mouth."

Neither hot, nor cold. Indifferent.

Love=humble self sacrifice for another with a view to immproving their condition, even if it means stepping on toes. Tolerance can't coexist with this.

Tim - Sep 17 2003

The Way

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 46 comments

Hey, thanks Tim!

Yeah, I think I agree with you. That's why I moved it to position 1. Can't please everyone, just glad to hear a good word once in a while.

Thanks again,

Tim - Sep 17 2003

Job 26:7

Wallpaper Other by timbrown527 7 comments

that's true. As a matter of fact, I was modeling it after what you did, figuring out how you did it. I had originally thought of using an Earth photo but changed my mind. Maybe at some future time.

Tim - Sep 16 2003